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Hey, Barack, Here’s a Great Idea for GM
Here’s some really interesting reporting from the Wall Street Journal. It turns out the electric utilities are starting to salivate, as well they should, at the prospect of plug in hybrid electric cars - which we know must be a key part of the ultimate solution to an eventual oil shortage. And guess what the electric utilities have that almost no other group has these days? A lot of money.
The report follows:
Hey, Auto Industry, Need a Jump? Utilities Consider Buying Electric Cars
By REBECCA SMITH
The auto industry’s quest to launch a new generation of electric cars may get a big boost from a sector with much to gain from getting advanced vehicles on the road: U.S. electric utilities.
Top executives at several utilities are mulling the possibility of ordering thousands of the vehicles — known as plug-in electric cars — as an expression of support for the technology they fear could be derailed by the auto industry’s financial traumas. The cars would run primarily on electricity, with gasoline to extend their range, and would recharge by plugging into standard electrical outlets.
![[Utilities Weigh Buying Electric Cars]](http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-AT977B_PLUGI_NS_20081113190834.gif)
Utilities stand to gain by selling the electricity needed to power the cars. Because power companies own tens of thousands of cars for their own company fleets, the idea under discussion involves putting in a substantial order to put weight behind development and, perhaps, persuade Congress to give the auto industry the assistance it needs.
“Our industry is interested in reducing carbon-dioxide emissions, and it seems like a good idea for auto makers and us to pull together,” says Bill Johnson, chief executive of Progress Energy Inc., Raleigh, N.C.
Another reason the sector is keenly interested is that it has excess generating capacity at night when power plants mostly go to sleep because demand drops. A study by the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, a federal energy lab, found that 73% of the nation’s light vehicles could be recharged with the existing utility infrastructure if the vehicles were plugged in overnight. Such a shift from gasoline to electricity as a primary transportation fuel could displace an estimated 6.2 million barrels of oil a day, about 52% of current oil imports.
Another report, by the Electric Power Research Institute, a utility-funded research group, and the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental group, concluded that if 60% of U.S. light vehicles were electrified by 2050, it would increase national electricity consumption by less than 8%. But it would cut total U.S. carbon-dioxide emissions by 450 million metric tons annually, equivalent to taking 82 million cars off the road.
Many in the industry are concerned about the stresses such new cars could put on the nation’s electric grid. If utilities become early plug-in-car adopters, they’d have a prime opportunity to make sure recharging happens in a way that strengthens the electric grid, rather than weakens it.
What they don’t want is a repeat of what happened after air conditioners became popular after World War II. Starting small, the appliances eventually became a major factor in pushing up summertime demand. Many utility systems that historically peaked in winter now reach even higher peaks in the summer — usage that took utilities by surprise.
Companies participating in the informal talks include Xcel Energy Inc., Progress Energy, PG&E Corp., Edison International, Wisconsin Energy Corp. and others.
The idea still is in the formative stage and could come to nothing, although Mr. Johnson of Progress said it is “gaining momentum.” He indicated that talks with auto makers have occurred individually and through the electric industry’s primary trade organization, the Edison Electric Institute.
Utilities would take possession of vehicles when they debut, likely in 2010 or 2011 if development efforts stay on track for cars such as the Chevy Volt, Saturn Vue or Ford Escape.
“If we get enough of us together, we could put in a very large order and maybe a big down payment,” says Dick Kelly, chief executive of Xcel Energy in Minneapolis.
“I would do it,” says Gale Klappa, CEO of Wisconsin Energy, adding that his utility has about 3,000 vehicles in its fleet and replaces 20% each year.
The discussions, though exploratory, are being conducted at top levels and among firms regarded as among the most earnest concerning climate issues. They see electric cars as transformative for the way energy is used in the U.S.
A spokesman for General Motors Corp. said the company “welcomes the interest” of utilities.
Best for auto makers would be multiyear orders, says Mark Duvall, a researcher at the Electric Power Research Institute, the utility-funded group. That is because early models may be money losers, so multiyear orders would help auto makers achieve profitability. He estimates fuel savings, for utilities, at $10,000 to $15,000 per car.
Utilities may have another benefit. Mr. Kelly said that if the companies go forward with the idea, he also would like to see a mechanism worked out so that utilities would get credit for some of the environmental benefits their adoption would create.
Write to Rebecca Smith at rebecca.smith [Email address: rebecca.smith #AT# wsj.com - replace #AT# with @ ]
Tags: peak oil investments
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34 responses so far ↓
1 paultaut // Nov 16, 2008 at 5:23 am
The US Post Office has been using all electrics in my area for years, P G & E, bought some from Altair years ago. This is very, very old news. The Journal must be hard up for articles.
2 chip // Nov 16, 2008 at 6:28 am
Great idea..we need more ideas like this followed by ACTION in this Increasingly DEER IN HEADLIGHTS NATION
3 KV // Nov 16, 2008 at 9:10 am
Here is much more radical proposal!
Major utilities should form a consortium and buy GM, F and the US arm of Chrysler to create a national auto company that will produce efficient electric and hybrid vehicles only.
We pay through an increase in electrical rate while the auto industry is cleaned up eliminating all the duplications and triplications and dumb managers. It is still a free market, and we still use fossil fuels to generate electricity and we don’t need a bail out from the bush/cheney assholes which will only cost more.
This also allows Obama to create a lasting change in the way the mobility infrastructure works.
4 fran // Nov 16, 2008 at 9:47 am
electric/power industries are challenged sufficiently with their current set of dilemmas[GHG,xmission infrastructure, generation efficiency, demand side efficiency, growth in stockholder return/equity, etc]. there is sufficient challenge without transportationindustry crises.
GM and other usa auto industries understood[so they said]how to”do it right” in the 1980s[remember roger smith and “saturn-the new way of competitive business?].
any form of bailout for “the auto guys” would be foolhardy for “electrics”, the usa gov’t. maybe the foreign auto guys see value in gm,f,cerberus enterprises. they will likely maintain as much of our job/employment usa pipeline as the usa incumbents. they can’t do much worse.
5 paultaut // Nov 16, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Obama wants to bailout the car industry, its in our national interest to maintain a car industry.
The current incumbents oppose the bailout.
Obama has dues to pay to the unions for services rendered. Union members are the “common” folk he has promised to help.
6 robert essian // Nov 16, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Yep, a new day is dawning. Capitalism at its best. I’m pumped and so looking forward to President
Obama’s presidentcy…Peace
7 paultaut // Nov 16, 2008 at 3:32 pm
The big , really big GM problem is the GMAC unit: 49% GM + 51% Cerberus Capital.
And Legacy costs ie Pensions. Both of these an anchor around its throat.
GM and Chrysler are joined at the hip. If GM were to go into a liquidation style bankruptcy, Chrysler would also. The US Pension Plan system would need more than the $50 Billion to remain solvent itself.
Chapter 11 may work, I don’t know. If Chapter 11 were to occur, I would think this is the best time to do it, when they are hemoraging anyway. As long as the Government steps in to to make GMAC a bank.
I think a major hinderance is the Hedge Fund. If there was a way to sever those ties, there would not be as much opposition.
Ford has announced the closing of 9 plants.
With retailers not hiring for the holidays and all of the announced layoffs, the next few months will bring a major jump in unemployment. We do not need to add the auto workers to that mix.
8 fran // Nov 16, 2008 at 4:07 pm
electric vehicles–
when and the features of such transportation options occur, the worldwide marketplace will be the main impetus. the power industry wins without the overhead and pain of being an owner/partner in autos.
most power cos,to minimize expense, will opt for minimal auto/truck expense–as will walmart, ups, waste mgt, etc
9 paultaut // Nov 17, 2008 at 1:04 am
You know what would really, really boost Solar? Have Walmart install a system on every roof of every store and claim Tax credits afterward. What a field day that would unleash.
10 Garry G // Nov 17, 2008 at 8:08 am
Jim/Rebecca–
I would recommend a 30 minute interview with Shai Agassi CEO of Better Place (electric vehicle network startup) at recent Web 2.0 conference. His case is- consumers buy the car, but not the energy storage device. instead they pay access to the network. An idea worth exploring!
The key is looking differently at business models, not propulsion systems.
The auto industry has a manufacturing platform problem that cannot be fixed with incremental tweaks to fuel efficiency. We need to move towards modular electric motors and energy storage systems based on on batteries, H2 fuel cells and capacitors. Build multiple platforms on the same factory floor. And then we can talk about the benefits of electric vehicles as platform to reinforce the electrical grid and reshape city-scapes.
Thanks for the post
http://www.theenergyroadmap.com/futureblogger
/show/1272-the-future-of-the-us-auto-industry
Garry G
Editor
The Energy Roadmap.com
http://www.theenergyroadmap.com
11 Isaac // Nov 17, 2008 at 9:54 am
The world is changing. All the nice things we took for granted, we will now have to work for. Things like health care, cheap food. Legacy contracts with the unions will need to be wiped clean from the slate, if the auto companies are to be viable/competitive. That puts all the pensions and retiree health benefits on the table. Bankrupcy is the only way to wipe clean the slate. Otherwise these companies don’t have a chance of survival, and we will just be throwing good money after bad. We need to adjust to the fact that we don’t need 1/2 of the mass of cars to be made each year, and that lean/ mean modern companies are the only ones worth federal subsidies. Time to bite the bullet.
12 robert essian // Nov 17, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Take away any individuals job and there’s a sense of hopelessness. Their lives as well as their families are turned upside down, inside out. It should not be taken litely.
Everything should be done to to save the auto company’s as there has been done to save the crooks on wall street, banks, corporations, finance, insurance, etc…
People will be put to the streets and the crooks get bonuses with our cash.
If this was the outcome of the bailouts by the citizens of the U.S. then this thing should have all been allowed to blow up, at least there would have been balance and parity to it all.
If the fat cats had to get in line with the auto workers, any worker and present their food stamps to eat that day I would be cool with that.
Everyone is protecting his or hers book and I appreciate that but there must be equity to all and so far it really is the workers of this nation who are getting screwed. BIG TIME.
I’ll give the chance of a GM bailout at 100% because if let to fail the cost will be far greater to our society than people realize.
I voted for Obama and I hope he takes all that trickle down cash stashed away and hand delivers it to the people in the form of jobs. I hope he taxes the hell out of anyone making more than he does being the President. Invests those taxes on the citizens of this country so they can have their vacations with their kids once a year, have a nice Thanksgiving turkey, decorate their house for the holidays and mingle with the neighbors. Pay their mortgage on time, credit cards, put their kids through college and have a 401k and social security when they retire. That’s not much to hope for and many would be very content with that.
What stops this nation from doing that? A bullshit war in Iraq, a military budget that is way up there to protect interests that hate us.
We could have taken care of our infrastructure, built electric cars, made our economy the best in the world with a fraction of the money we use occupying real estate in countrys that frankly we wouldn’t have to if not for f…ing crude oil.
Now after building out our infrastructure we could reduce our military budget, create a tax base with the jobs created, clean up the planet, stay out of other country’s business and export our good will. Last but not least stop the killing of our greatest resource; All the boys and girls we send to defend our dumb ass policy everywhere in the world.
People schrug their shoulders all the time when the military pay great somes of money for hammers, toilet seats and all other things. No big deal, water cooler small talk. The waste is tremendous.
GM going under seems to be no big deal, mismanaged anyways, legacy costs are too high, the model is broken.
Well negotiate and fix it because the industry represents 1 out of every 10 jobs in America. Maybe yours will be effected because of it and you’ll loose your job.
Me I’m rooting for the workers in this Country because the so called brains in this country have put us on the brink of a depression and those SOB’s need to come along for the ride with the rest of us.
How many factory workers do you know who are asking for bailouts? None. They want their jobs, the money they put in their 401K’s and the money they put in Social Security. What will they get? Not a damn thing because the industry may fail, the stock market is failing and the Government is quickly heading for insolvency. All caused by GREED and the intellictual elite.
Let the intellectuals eat cake, ask the fellow next to them for a dime, have to sell apples for a nickle and see the world as it is when you really get screwed.
It really is time for all of us to get real…Peace
13 KV // Nov 17, 2008 at 8:29 pm
RE – I second your comments and thoughts it expressed. Many posters think nothing about putting down nearly 2.5 MILLIONS of jobs at risk, but would like to save the fat asses of the wall street. What they do not realize is that if we lose the industrial base, there is no way to compete with the world except to be an agricultural economy. Be real: everybody is building missiles, bombs, aircrafts and they don’t really need us for that stuff, and obviously none of them are lining up to take financial advice from defunct Wall Street. Only reason we are still hanging around is because we put out so much garbage that internationals have no choice but to hang on to realize some value instead of holding “digital numbers”, not even a piece of paper that may have one time use in the bathroom.
What is not seen that this crazy administration is willing to put 10 million Americans on the street. Why? It is very simple, and very political: much of the mid-West went blue, and republicans take revenge, even if it is suicidal. These crazies are committing national suicide. At this rate, by the time Bush admin leaves DJI may be flirting at 5500 level, and by the time winter is over, we will be on our way to become the new third world nation. The assholes have the money - $700 billions given before election, and power to do whatever is in the best interest of the nation. They will buy 30:1 leveraged loans, but can’t buyout the auto industry and restructure the mess. One way to keep masses in line is to keep them poor and ignorant. We are on our way.
14 paultaut // Nov 18, 2008 at 12:21 am
Bob, you must really be vexed to use such language. Let me remind you of all the jobs that would have been lost had Electrics been manufactured enmass. Think of all the unemployed.
Visualize the following: pop the hood of a GM car, what do you see? Pop the hood of an all electric compare the two. The GM car would have to be gutted, almost everything would be missing. Everything missing represents multiple jobs lost. What would the assembly lines be putting together that would require the same amount of workers on the line?
Auto mechanics: check the breaks and make sure all of the wires are properly connected? Enough windshield washing fluid, radiator ok? What will be the pay scale for the limited amount of work that will be required? Mufflers, exhaust fans? Gone.
You can not have it both ways. An all electric car manufactured enmass would destroy the present structure of the auto industry.
Be careful of what you wish for, CNG use even if temporary, allows time to make the change, time to generate new replacement jobs. An immediate switch to all electrics would have been a mistake even if the technology had been available.
McCain showed up during the procedures prior to the passage of the Bailout Plan. Passage was blocked because the Democrats wanted the public to believe both sides were in favor of it not because they did not have the votes to pass it outright. If something went wrong, both sides could share the blame.
Both Reid and Pelosi blamed McCain on National TV for the failure. Obama came to the negotiating table. With his intervention, the Renamed Bailout plan, which now numbered 400 plus pages from the initial 2 presented to Congress by Paulson, finally passed. 400 additional pages covering an additional $150 Billion of Pork. The Democratically controlled Congress tried to push it through, and finally succeeded. One of the items newly included was Oversight, one of the items excluding was funding for Acorn.
15 robert essian // Nov 18, 2008 at 5:09 am
Paul, I do understand what your message is. Mine was not totally centered on the auto industry but to jobs as a whole.
The American workers are being slammed by most everyone and yet the CEO’s and our supposed leaders get trips to the spa because what they bring to the company is so darn important. They get high, drink single malt scotch, do a little coke, then play with the girls.
Hey, business is business so lay-offs are part of business just don’t be so cavalier about it and throw that into the face of people hanging on to life as they know it.
AIG; Ooops, sorry but we need 50 billion more (or some such number), Fannie-Freddie same thing and on and on.
We all see what happens when confidence in the market is shaken. The most important piece of a vibrant economy is the working class and their responding by not spending because their jobs may not be there tomorrow…Peace
16 KV // Nov 18, 2008 at 7:27 am
RE - You should also consider that crazies of the administration proposed to spend $500 B in three page double spaced bill granting them unaccountable authority to do whatever!
If the US loses industrial base, the game is over. Read Paul Farrell at Marketwatch.
17 mark // Nov 18, 2008 at 8:11 am
Have we never heard of appeasment, what control?
18 paultaut // Nov 18, 2008 at 8:44 am
Peace to you also, AIG is much more important than Frannie, the entire auto industry, B.S,Lehman, etc. combined. Millions of policys of all sorts would have been jeopordized. Every American has some sort of insurance. When an Insurer gets into trouble, there is no such animal as chapter 11. The State Insurance Departments step in immediately freezing all assets. Claim payments are also frozen. The company has to be assessed from top to bottom as an aggregate of all divisions combined. If found to be undercollateralized, it would be put into Receivership. Policys would be sold to other insurers if they can be. Otherwise they could be cancelled outright, you would stand in line to receive a Pro rata share of the company as it begins to be liquidated. Claim settlements outstanding would be in a waiting line also. All expenditures would have to be Court approved. All distributions would be based on a percentage of assets avaiable. When that runs out. The State Guarantee funds would step in and all run out of money because the hundreds of insurers under AIG’s umbrella would bankrupt them ultimately. Some Reinsurers may not survive either. The Feds would have to come in eventually to refinance the State Guarantee Funds.
The largest Insurance company in the US to go through this process was Reserve Insurance in the 1970’s. Payments were still being made 10 years after the fact.
Believe me, I took part in Reserve’s liquidation. Everything is handled by the State’s Insurance Laws. There are no exceptions. No one claim is more deserving than another.
The Domino Effect would have been immediate. The Insurance Industry’s assets have been on a Mark to Market basis for decades. No one could have stepped up to the plate to buy these Policys because the number of policies issued by any insurer is limited to a percentage of assets. As other smaller insurers are audited, 1/3rd of all every year, I expect other bailouts.
Buy a car, a home where’s your Insurance?
19 Isaac // Nov 18, 2008 at 9:43 am
I do believe the loss of jobs is a trajedy, but it is no cure to prop up a failing industry. 25$ B is like a bandaid on an arterial wound.
If we are going to spend 25$ B of your and my money on the vehicle sector, then spend it on the future and not the past, atleast for the sake of the next generation, who are going to be paying these bills.I am for peace, but not a welfare state. Welfare states always have higher unemployment!
20 robert essian // Nov 18, 2008 at 9:58 am
Paul, respectfully your arguement is a good one but it has nothing really to do with what I’m trying to convey.
In short what I’ve tried to convey was every business model is broken. So what is appearently good for GM should be good for everyone else.
Me I’m pro consumer because I know their money does trickle around the economy. I’m not terribly convinced it works the other way around.
I do not honestly care about who makes what but if you rip me off and taunt me about it I tend to get a little vexed.
Whether it effects me or not. If it effects a loved one, friend or neighbor I’m in their corner because they matter to me as human beings.
I do not work in the auto business nor does it effect my work (yet). There are some very fine people in that industry who have provided through their taxes and community work a charitable group of individuals who help neighbors as well as strangers and its time to speak out in support of them.
In your post you made great arguements about why we had to do what we did. No arguement from me, I get it.
I’m making my arguement for the working class because as I read yours it’s equally important to the economy and our national interests.
We didn’t do anything wrong Paul but we will pay the greatest cost.
So my point is what’s good for the goose…Peace
21 robert essian // Nov 18, 2008 at 10:30 am
Isaac, the industry is broken that’s true. I don’t want to waste any more money either. I’m asking that we assist them with LOANS and encourage them to get their house in order.
The government is forcing the banks to take money they don’t need. The banks get a great interest rate from the government, invest it in some bond somewhere making money from yours and mine hard earned taxes and don’t lend it to the people and businesses it was intended for. WHAT”S UP WITH THAT!!!
Then the government has to go begging for money to pay for our national debt at a rate probably higher than they charge the banks. If they can’t get funded by China or elsewhere they print new money, inflation goes up and we get the priviledge of paying more for things. WHAT”S UP WITH THAT!
Take some of this money, create jobs, people will save and banks can lend it to other people or businesses the way it has always been done. People pay taxes and the investment gets paid off with a handsome profit over time.
The people will move their net cash around I assure you of that if they understand their jobs are not at risk in the forseable future thus creating more jobs and taxes.
Mortgages will be paid on time, the insurance company’s will get their money, credit cards will get paid on time, cars will be purchased, banks will be lending again and financial institutions will run just fine. We will begin exporting again our imports will sore and the world will get humming again.
Then we wouldn’t have to bail out anyone.
Makes sense to me but what do I know.
KV, made some very good points in his last couple of posts.
I understand this smacks of socialism or welfare but who is getting the lions share of our 24/7 printing of our future taxes in the form of the American green back. Not the people. Yet whenever we even talk about jobs for the citizens it’s welfare. I honestly am at my wits end when anyone thinks in those terms.
The inequity in our way of thinking needs to be fixed, the model is broken and it will bankrupt our entire way of doing things if not encouraged to change…Peace
22 KV // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:29 am
RE - You are correct on AIG, as the insurance part of AIG is not in trouble, it is all the crapshoot they did, and now they are hiding behind the skirt of insurance policies. When you play with round dices, you can make anything sound good, like the Madhatter.
23 robert essian // Nov 18, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Here again KV makes a great point. The system is being played by all the institutions now claiming to be banks so they fall under the rules of TARP.
GM try’s to do it with their lending institution GMAC and it’s branded as living in the grey area and can’t be tolerated.
Look even Paulson agrees with my way of thinking he just doesn’t want to use part of the $700 billion because it wasn’t intended for that purpose. He acknowledges the country would be in grave danger should any one of the auto comany’s go under. Especially now.
Maybe his support means the auto industry is truly doomed.
It must be SAVED so lets get everyone together, negotiate a better business model and LEND them the money. Trust me if they go under the government will have first dibbs on securing their investment before all other claims are made against a potential auto industry failure.
Did someone say IRS…Peace
24 paultaut // Nov 18, 2008 at 12:52 pm
What is GM selling that consumers think is a good model. The model that brings money into the company should be built, money losing models should be mothballed. 7 out of 8 GM models are money pits. They can take the entire $25 Billion for themselves and won’t survive til April.
25 paultaut // Nov 18, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Barack Obama: Assistance cannot be a Blank Check. There will be a considerable amount of strings attached. Sunday, CNBC
26 robert essian // Nov 18, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Last post on this subject from me.
Mother, Father and three kids.
They have a home, car, credit cards and other such things.
Mom works and Dad is a stay at home Father.
Mom loses her factory job and in three months they lose everything. Everything they were paying on has been foreclosed/given back or bankrupted.
Everyone looses including the neighbors because home was foreclosed and sold at auction 40% below market value.
This family goes on welfare because no job in sight and the government (us) bails them out in the form of housing, food stamps, medicade and pays to have them retrained. AKA WELFARE.
Non of us are immune to this life changing happenstance.
It is happening now to millions of people and will happen to millions more.
What is the cost to all of us as a country when hope collapses and despare rules.
Paul, I must say I’m surprised that you took my post and took a very small part of my message then went AIG. Did you really read it or is your focus so narrow that the message was replaced by your thoughts of the day.
We all have had this happen to us, we will be telling someone a story and you can just tell their not listening because they have their own story that’s better. Even if it has nothing to do with the story you just told…Peace
27 Isaac // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:12 pm
RE, you and I see this so differently. Change means getting rid of things that aren’t working right, and one of the best examples we have of that is the autoindustry. Simply, this country doesn’t need to make 17 million cars/year. Probably 5 million would due just fine. And they certainly don’t need to be the kind of cars the big 3 are cranking out, and certainly not with the kind of contracts they have with their own management and labor. No, this is not the kind of drain we want to pour our money down. We need to adapt to the new realities, and we can’t afford to just prop up the old, ineffectual industries. Only through great pain, will they morph themselves into something relevant. Its time to get tough and make the very hard decisions, or we will quickly become a secong world country with first world appetites and expectations.
28 paultaut // Nov 19, 2008 at 12:28 am
Bob, the big three’s program was based not only on selling currently undesirable models but also on the expectation that the public would purchase a new vehicle every 3 years or so. The deflation ongoing in the Housing sector has decimated the public’s ability to use Home Equity lines on Big Ticket items. The temporary oil bubble decimated the resale value of the gas guzzlers. Neither of these conditions will change any time soon. If you add a recession for the entire 2009 season to the mix, GM will not make a profit with its 7 out of 8 unprofitable models. They will have to inject $30 Billion in the beginning of 2010 to the Union to get rid of some Legacy costs. Will we pay for this too.
Ford is not asking for a handout. It feels it can get through the crisis if things do not detriorate more than they have projected. Why was Ford better prepared?
BTW, over the last 10 years you must have seen some of the ads by DiTech for home mortgage financing. This is the GMAC in action, in trouble and continuing to advertize.
29 robert essian // Nov 19, 2008 at 4:00 am
Gentlemen, not once did I say pour money into the auto company’s without working with them to fix their obvious broken business model. They need to fix it for sure and are making strides to do so.
They want to re-tool for electric vehicle production.
As for how many cars they sell we’ll let the market determine that.
It’s not a bailout it’s a LOAN.
I’m advocating saving jobs and helping to build a better business model.
This bankruptcy doesn’t need to occur and I wish you would slow down when reading what I posted because you really are misunderstanding what I said…Thank you
30 robert essian // Nov 19, 2008 at 4:53 am
Isaac, “change is getting rid of things that don’t work”.
My point exactly.
Let the banks, insurance company’s, finance, government and GM go because their all broken.
Clean out management, have oversight and start anew.
We have a great start by getting rid of management in government. Bye Bye GW thanks for the 10 trillion plus dollar debt, two wars and a soft depression.
I guess we aren’t that far apart in our thinking after all…Peace
31 KV // Nov 19, 2008 at 8:12 am
Paultaut – Please keep this in perspective.
1. Jim K. owns this website and can run it as he likes. It is still a free country.
2. Your message gets lost when you, as RE stated, punch out the though of the moment.
3. It is possible that 25,000 readers a month are all dumb and stupid to understand your extensive knowledge in investing, trading, and everything else you may know as you know. Give them a break.
32 jkingsdale // Nov 19, 2008 at 10:13 am
FYI: I won’t permit verbal food fights, so any poster who attacks another ad hominem will be barred here. I’m also getting pretty tired of reading verbal diarrhea. Let’s try to be concise and non-repetitive. JK
33 robert essian // Nov 20, 2008 at 5:12 am
Professor, it was not my intention at all to create a food fight.
I get all the arguements presented, however, would you please explain to me where my basic premise is flawed.
I am extremely concerned about this issue and where a bankruptcy of the auto industry would take our country.
I have re-read all you have written about this issue but knawing in the back of my mind are the numbers and who is telling the truth.
3 million jobs lost can’t be good (if true) to the treasury, its citizens and the overall mental health of our country.
Finally, as a side issue without compitition what would keep Detroit South from charging more for their cars, trucks, etc…This is a very emotional time for all in this country and I think a little bit of it spilled over into your web site. Seems everywhere I look these same emotional posts are showing up on other sites. While counter productive your site is providing a GREAT release valve for our frustrations.
Jim, I think that’s a good thing less the personal attacks.
Thank you
34 Basil Dimitropoulos // Dec 9, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Dear Bloggers:
The answer to OPEC is the electric vehicles at http://www.energynews.gr
What we need is an International Public Prosecutor Intervention.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Basil Dimitropoulos
Electrical Engineer
104 - 106 Kremou Street, Kallithea, Athens 176-76 GREECE
TEL: +30-210-9590530
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